Jesus bore divine wrath at the cross for our sake (Isa 53:5), and so protected us from it. This act implies that God hates humans since he would have poured wrath upon humans if not for the work of Christ’s cross. Yet John says that God loved the world (John 3:16). So how can Scripture speak both of God’s wrath and his love for us? Does God hate us or love us?
Of all people, it may be of some interest to see how John Calvin (1509–1564) answered this question because he, in the minds of many, was a theologian of God’s wrath. While he certainly emphasized divine wrath, he (against some modern expectations) prioritized God’s love for humanity before wrath—indeed, for Calvin, passages about God’s wrath aim to underscore divine love and mercy.
Accomodation
Calvin knows that Scripture speaks of humanity as enemies, as being under a curse, and as estranged. In this regard, he cites Romans 5:10, Galatians 3:10, 13, and Colossians 1:21-22. Yet he explains such strong language under the category of accommodation.
He explains, “Expressions of this sort have been accommodated to our capacity that we may better understand how miserable and ruinous our condition is apart from Christ” (Inst. 2.16.2). He continues, “For if it had not been clearly stated that the wrath and vengeance of God and eternal death rested upon us, we would scarcely have recognized how miserable we would have been without God’s mercy, and we would have underestimated the benefit of liberation.”
In other words, God uses language of wrath and vengeance to help us understand the greatness of our salvation. These words accommodate divine speech to our lived reality. Thus, for Calvin, our hearts cannot fully appreciate God’s mercy “unless our minds are first struck and overwhelmed by fear of God’s wrath and by dread of eternal death.”
While he does not specify then what this accommodation conveys, he will shortly argue that God loves us and that (as he notes earlier) he freely favours us (Inst. 2.16.3, 2). On this basis, he sees language of God’s hatred for humanity as divine accommodation since it is clear elsewhere that God loves us. For example, John tells us that God first loved us before we loved him (1 John 4:19).
Before continuing on this topic, we need to turn to the cross because it stands at the centre of Calvin’s understanding of God’s love for us and divine wrath.
Cross
While commenting on Jesus’s cry of dereliction, Calvin comments, “Yet we do not suggest that God was ever inimical or angry toward him” (Inst. 2.16.11). Calvin finds such a view impossible since Christ rests in God and God’s love for Christ is why he can make satisfaction on behalf of others.
In light of this, he explains that Christ “experienced all the signs of a wrathful and avenging God.” And for Calvin, these signs are the sources of Christ’s death (Inst. 2.16.11; cf. Matt 3:17). And so Calvin can cite Hebrews 2:15 in the same context to speak of what Christ frees us from, namely, the fear of death—wrath and vengeance.
It is important then to note two important aspects of Calvin’s view. First, at the cross, God always loved the Son. He follows a scriptural pattern here as the Fourth Gospel makes this very point: “For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again” (John 10:17). The idea that God (or the Father) hates the person of Christ is foreign to Scripture.
Second, Jesus bears the “dread of death” on our behalf under the signs of divine wrath and vengeance. He thus truly experienced this very human dread of mortality, and so he cried out to God. Yet this imputed experience did not nor could ever lessen God’s true and lasting love for the Son. But Christ had to not only suffer in body but in soul in order to heal both according to Calvin (Inst. 2.16.12).
Love
Why would Christ undergo such punishment? Was it since God so hated the world that he sent his only-begotten Son to save it? Calvin disagrees (and importantly, so does Scripture in John 3:16).
The reformer writes, “For how could he have given in his only-begotten Son a singular pledge of his love to us if he had not already embraced us with his free favor?” (Inst. 2.16.2). The fact that God became incarnate already shows his pledge of love for us and free favour. All of this was true even while we were still enemies of God (Rom 5:10).
And so Calvin makes the somewhat unusual argument that Scripture teaches us about God’s wrath so that we could know that “apart from Christ, God is, so to speak, hostile to us” which leads us “to embrace his benevolence and fatherly love in Christ alone” (Inst. 2.16.2).
Understandably, Calvin seems to strain the notion of love to its limits, but he makes further qualifications that, to my mind, clarify how God’s wrath leads to our perception of God’s love for us in Christ.
First, he affirms that God cannot love unrighteousness in us. Since we all have unrighteousness, we deserve God’s hate. And yet, “because the Lord wills not to lose what is his in us, out of his kindness he still finds something to love” (Inst. 2.16.3).
In this way (and secondly), despite our unrighteousness, God loves what he created us to be—he loves his image, the vestiges of created goodness in us. “However much we may be sinners by our own fault,” writes Calvin, “we nevertheless remain his creatures.”
And this is why God “is moved by pure and freely given love of us to receive us into grace” (Inst. 2.16.3). It is free because it has nothing to do with our actions; it is pure because nothing earns it. God simply loves us for what we are, not for what we do. Citing 1 John 4:19, Calvin affirms that God loves us first, anticipating our redemption in Christ.
The reformer cites Augustine to further explain his point (Inst. 2.16.4). Augustine explains after some discussion, “Accordingly, in a wonderful and divine manner, even when He hated us, He loved us; for He hated us, in so far as we were not what He Himself had made; and because our own iniquity had not in every part consumed His work, He knew at once both how, in each of us, to hate what we had done, and to love what He had done (Augustine, Tractates on John, 60.6).”
In other words, there is a sense in which God does hate us. That sense specifically is a hate of our corruption into unrighteousness. But what God has done to create us, God loves. And Calvin has reminded us that God always finds something to love in us, even the worst of us since we are his creatures.
Conclusion
In summary, God may be said to hate people in a specific sense: he hates unrighteousness in us. However, he freely and purely loves us which we know because God became human in order to save us despite our unrighteousness. God then cannot hate Christ because there is no unrighteousness in him, although Christ experiences the signs of hatred because he undergoes dread of death on our behalf.
And Christ’s cross with all that dread and wrath works, according to Calvin, to show God’s great mercy and kindness towards us. Even when we see wrath, it is meant to show us God’s love because such language is an accomodation to our creaturely capacity so that we can understand the overflowing goodness and love of God.
At the end of the day, we can learn one fundamental truth from this discussion: the incarnation flows out of God’s love for us, and even God’s wrath underscores the bounty of divine love. God Is love, and he loved the world to such a great extent that he became human and underwent the dread of the cross for our sake.
We Know God is all that good and He is light — 1 John 1:5 — “This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.” Evil, in contrast, is characterized by darkness which cannot begin to overcome Almighty God.
God doesn’t hate anyone because He would have started hating the members of His creation before the creation began. Theologically God would also have the capacity to contain darkness within Himself — constituting hate. Thus anyone who hates another is in spiritual darkness — this small detail constitutes a negation of the purpose of God’s entire plan. Yet, God will without a twinge send people to eternal hell as the due course of righteousness.
Thus, when we have the capacity to contain Light we belong to God by faith. So, the world is a stage and it is for our comprehension through to the only way it can be personally understood — experience…peira, which besets us in this curse as a constant.
Thanks Wyatt. It is always good to hear Calvin when he is (or appears to be) contradicting “Calvinism.” There is a lot of unqualified “us,” “we,” and “our” in this article, and that is a good thing.
Q: If God (allegedly) passes by the reprobate for salvation and refuses to give them the very ability to repent and believe the Truth, and Jesus did not die for them, in what way can we say that God “so” loved them?
Well, since universalism isn’t well-thought-of, the answer is that though God loves, he hates us even more. Given he made us all who came after Adam sinful and still puts the blame and guilt on us, (Psalm 139, Psalm 51:4) and the fact that there will be a lot more people in hell than heaven, God’s hate is much greater than his love. If you don’t believe in double destination like Calvin’s Institutes (III:xxi:15,) then unless you hear the gospel and choose to believe, and convert (and those who don’t hear are still imputed “without excuse” for not finding Jesus themselves) before you die, God’s hate wins in the end. Unless you hide from the Father behind Christ, God will not separate you from your sin.
Thing is, God does what he wants, and will not explain anything, having made us not worth an explanation (Job 38-41, Romans 9:20). We can talk about love, but the truth is that God’s definition of love should give us no comfort. Pain hurts more than pleasure pleases. Hell is going to be worse than heaven is good, and will be an eternal monument to God’s hatred to most of humanity. We’re helpless without the pity we are given. But we still have a chance, some of us.
Hi, Doug
This is one of the reasons I don’t believe in Calvinism, biblically speaking. God is light — 1 John 1:5, period. We are His project to fulfill, nurture, and bring into His light. I’ve never read anything like the Bible, not even close, and I believe it is true. Theologically, there’s no such thing as being neutral. Revelation 3:15-17:
“15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth. 17 You say, ‘I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked.”
Calvinism clearly implies that God made some people for wrath even before they were created — a serious contradiction in view of God’s identity defined as benevolent and would have it that none should perish.
I said to a friend that God would have it that none should perish…”What does it mean that God is not willing for any to perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9)?” (notwithstanding context). He told me that verse speaks of (defending the doctrine of Election) applies to those He chose before the foundation of the creation — I thought that is redundant and doesn’t fit the context, why would God have to say the extremely obvious…
So, I began making the case for Free Will. Judas walked around with the Son of God for 3 years and yet he was so closed to the message, his fate put him in this position: “Then Satan entered Judas Iscariot, who was one of the Twelve. And Judas went to discuss with the chief priests and temple officers how he might betray Jesus to them.… Luke 22:3.
Since God is light and Satan is the proverbial black hole of darkness, who has nothing in common with God ( he is “not-God”), the suggestion that God and Satan are unified in any way is about as blasphemous as it gets. I firmly believe in free will.
The identity of Satan compared with the Devil is very obscure. Lots of online preacher will insist that Lucifer, the God-King of Babylon is the Devil, but Satan just means opposer, and Lucifer, latin for Phosphoros, Greek for Light-Bringer, is a word used to describe Christ in one of the epistles. That term Satan is used more in war-revords than theology in the bible.
Satan is a role to play. One angel patrolling the Earth was the Satan of Job- a prosecuting attorney, calling out Job for allegedly treating God like a sugar-daddy.
The Devil, a Satan against Christ and humanity, is a distinctive enemy while a Satan is any enemy. We should never confuse the two.
Frankly, I see no good to be found in free will, though I’m sure we have it. Why would God want us to choose Him when the only alternative is apparently infinite suffering? If we had no free will, we would obey God. When we don’t use our free will, we obey God, since all sin is from free will. What’s the point of it then, when all it can do is work out evil? How is it not the most sadistic curse even contrived? Why is it wrong to convert people by force in order to save their souls?
Thanks for responding, Gordon.
We do have the free will to believe or disbelieve in God; nevertheless, heaven is a kingdom; and I would say, obviously, we have a choice to believe or not believe in God. Thus it appears to have democratic underpinnings when it has to do with free will.
I have no confusion between the devil/Satan, and his demons constituting 1/3 of the angels that ‘fell’ with Lucifer/Satan/the devil — the demons constituting his underlings — and based on scripture a really sorry lot of lost souls. The Bible defines numerous personas…characters, on earth and beyond, in Scripture. I have no confusion with its definitions and I most assuredly, wholeheartedly believe that the Bible is the word of God, probably due to the unmistakable results I have discerned, experienced. What I don’t comprehend yesterday, by the grace of God I will assimilate tomorrow. Well, that’s about all I would say on this thread, you, like everyone, have the right to believe the Scripture as you see fit…of course.
The thing about these democratic underpinnings is that the consequences are unforeseeable. It is completely impossible to imagine infinity. Take some amount of time time in great and extreme pain, boredom, and anguish, each alone enough to cause a seizure, add them up, multiply by a thousand, factor in time, then divide it by zero. That’s what damnation is supposed to be, for not believing other humans’ testimony about a being who cannot be sensed.
It’s like locking me in a warehousd with a red circle on a black floor, and telling me, “You got a speeding ticket when you were 18. This means you are a worthless lawbreaker and must be punished. There’s a ghost in this room. You can choose not to stand on the red circle with him, as he is on the red circle, and then you’ll become a ghost too and become the ghost’s slave forever. But if you don’t, and the egg timer in my hand goes off (I won’t tell you how much time is on it,) the ghost will stab you to death, bring you back to life, and do it again forever.”
That’s what the evangelical ultimatum looks like. Who gives one about loving others, discipleship or repentance? All you gotta to is believe and say the magic words and convert again every altar call, and you’ll have the password to heaven, and complete impunity from all the people you abused.
This is kinda the whole gospel according to Paul.
Right Gordan, of course, I comprehend your outlook. You have given this proposition a lot of thought. You would be a good Bible student.
“It is completely impossible to imagine infinity…” Absolutely, in view of our finite minds — thus the need for faith. I know, so far you’re not willing to give God the benefit of the doubt, and that’s ok for now. But God does appreciate the attention you are giving Him and He more than anyone understands and has infinite compassion for your dilemma.
The way the process is laid out, and subsequently played out is — you have faith in Him first and He will give you insight as you take the initiative to simply believe in Him. He will definitely respond. When this happens your frustration will drift from your soul like albatross.
And yes, this is what it takes, for example, John 1:12:
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God…John 1:12:
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, period.
Matthew 9:20…So Jesus got up and went with him, along with His disciples. 20Suddenly a woman who had suffered from bleeding for twelve years came up behind Him and touched the fringe of His cloak. 21She said to herself, “If only I touch His cloak, I will be healed. 22Jesus turned and saw her. “Take courage, daughter,” He said, “your faith has healed you.” And the woman was cured from that very hour…”
Notice there was a large croud, as usual, however, often it was only a few who believed! We are basically hard-hearted and it takes hearing the Gospel before you can respond; or how can you discern, and judge? You have to read the Book with an open mind first — read it before you even take lessons. Then study it under the guidance of a qualified teacher. There are quire a few of them, but not all of them are walking in the Spirit and therefore it will be the Spirit Himself who will be with you even during your teaching.
The point of these examples is to show it is faith and nothing else(!) that activates your relationship in Jesus. Then as you follow up on that newfound experience by studying the Bible, and “doing what you read” it will daily become clearer and clearer. It’s not the miracle that was the point, it was the act of having faith. When Peter walked on water, Matthew 14:22-23, sure people raved about that for the last two thousand years, but from the perspective of heaven, that was no big deal whatsoever — it was his faith which was supposed to be highlighted. But people sensationalized the temporal act and forgot about the point…and so it goes.
In Matthew 12:40-45, Jesus gives one or His warnings/lessons describing how susceptible spiritually “empty” humans can be.(empty of the God’s Spirit).
In this case a demon was exorcized from a man (and subsequently his ‘temple’ was empty) it For example, 43 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, (he didn’t follow through in fsith) swept clean, and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.” The hate and thriving psychoses in this world has a reason for sure — it’s not psychological, it’s evil.
So then, in this empty condition no understanding can be forthcoming. Yes, some people mouth the words but do not possess them in their hearts, and that’s useless.
So, that’s the basic idea — In reality, Jesus had one singular message — Love God with heart, mind, soul, and strength; and love your neighbor as yourself. All the rest hovers around that Core of theology. John 16 tells us how and why the Spirit will help us all the way…
So, see you…
I’ve read the Book, much of it. Chapter a day for the past 10 years until recently because it’s dried up and I need to let it cool down.
I’m a Christian. And I’m not really in a crisis of faith either…
I’m in a crisis of doctrine.
How can we teach that God loves us, when the only conclusion that can be drawn from other doctrines is that God does not love us?
How can we teach that we are (effectively) born guilty?
That’s not a mystery, like saying that God can be a man, or that one being can be three persons. It’s not a mystery, but a self contradiction.
How do we know the Biblical Canon is complete and correct? “Because I said so?” Our criteria for books in the canon are completely arbitrary, but we “trust the Holy Spirit” to follow our models. There is explicitly missing holy scripture mentioned in the Bible (book of Gad, quotes from Enoch, book of Iddo, 0th Corinthians, and many NT books rejected for being pseudepigrapha, while it’s easily proven that some of our own canon are pseudepigrapha too!
Why are our Bibles’ old testament texts based on the Masoretes’ which were compiled after the rabbis rejected the Messiah? Didn’t it turn out that Qumran was closer to the LXX than the MT?
Who decided our canon, anyways? Jerome witnesses that Tobit or Judith was affirmed in Nicaea. What else was decided at Nicaea that we weren’t told about? Where is the Holy Spirit? Don’t you think there would be an inspired confession instead of a man-made one at such an important time?
Was there any reason for Luther to reject his list of apocrypha other than because of his own doctrines?
Excellent, Gordan — now we’re talking… If someone studied the Scripture for 35 years diligently, he still wouldn’t comprehend the sum total of the mind of God due to our limited mental capacity… which is not an insult! by the way. We have an opportunity to learn as we go which is the only way we can do it, notwithstanding, the thief on the cross didn’t do all the things that important people during the courses of their lives, but many of those will envy him at the3 judgment seat of Christ, 2 Cor. 5:10. I’ve studied under some most seriously accomplished scholars — one for example who knew (it seemed) every single theological stalwart in human history. Yet he was still human and had to learn little by little. There are Grecians who mastered their own language and did very well in Hebrew, who wrote numerous Bible commentaries that are amazing scholastic accomplishments, but still feel they are missing “something…”
The point is the thing that the Son of God came to reveal — ultimate truth. However, it is a telling statement to hear: John 16:..12… — …and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world has been condemned. I still have much to tell you, but you cannot yet bear to hear it. However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come…” The point therefore is, not to be able to comprehend everything at once but to be able to follow Him by your faith.
Neither you nor me nor anyone will ever prove everything (the frustration of the atheist), for sure, simply because we couldn’t handle it. But per John 16, we will find out everything we need to know as we go — why — because it’s the Spirit who will be leading us directly as we go to the Lord in faith…studying, fasting, praying, and learning to ‘love one another’ — a vital detail; and without which we will never see the glory of God. It is a vital detail because “If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.” 1 Cor. 13…
So, I am saying there’s more than trying to figure out all of the mysteries of God and human history and why we do the things we do…
But it’s only ‘loving’ (a present participle…ongoing) that fulfills the “Law and the Prophets”, for example, Galatians 5… “For you, brothers were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you keep on biting and devouring one another, watch out, or you will be consumed by one another…”
The success that meets the desire of God’s heart is Love…agapē…
If we actually loved one another no one would break the ten commandments — nothing could as effectively establish peace among mankind…nothing has!
So in the end, I discovered that humbling myself and studying, praying without ceasing, trying to be the person who when seen by my fellow man, I can on a good day be an adequate representative for a child of God — nothing could please Him more.
The rest follows — take another look at John 16…That’s critical because of the realization, if we ‘believe’, the Spirit of God actually leads us directly, notwithstanding, you will be tested to prove your worth since the enemy of God…the devil, has democratic right to post a challenge for our souls. Why…because we inadvertently do his will by our basic natures and subsequently our actions — we don’t have to learn how to be evil. The answers are theological…spiritually-based, but directly from Scripture.
You are right about that. We Humans are naturally curious little spirit-being-animal hybrids. (I wonder how confusing we would be to the angels if God didn’t keep them up to speed with how our odd little minds work.) We like to learn as much as possible when we turn to something; we get frustrated when things are hidden from us, and the only real dampener to this instinct is getting PTSD from having seen too much. It makes me want to do whatever my job is here, get it over with, and hurry off to the next life where hopefully my curiosity will be sated or removed.
Nevertheless, as you’re pointing out, following ΙΣ ΧΣ by action (following his commandments, esp. praying and showing love to others) is a way to acquire knowledge and be able to handle it, or at least occupy the mind.
But here’s the question: how do I get authoritative guidance from the HS about things in my life that are not in the Bible? How does God give specific but authoritative instructions to specifically me, a non-Biblical person, in non-Biblical times, in a non-Biblical country, with non-Biblical talents using non-Biblical technology?
“The Bible is the word of God,” they say. “There’s no new revelation, but all the answers are in the Bible if you search hard enough!”
[God’s left us on our own,] they imply. [You’re not worth having God’s plan revealed to you with certainty. The HS doesn’t talk to you. You’re supposed to pray and hope your intuition is correct.]
Now, I suspect praying to God & asking which college or career or other major decision I should take, and then forcing an answer by sortition is not a very, well, reverent habit to get into.
So where does one converse with God now? Do I indeed need to practice improvised sorcery or omen-reading to try and figure out what the HS is whispering to me among a thousand voices?
I hear you. “…how do I get authoritative guidance from the HS about things in my life that are not in the Bible? How does God give specific but authoritative instructions to specifically me, a non-Biblical person, in non-Biblical times, in a non-Biblical country, with non-Biblical talents using non-Biblical technology?” A proper question. That’s where John 16 comes in — You study as you are able, definitely pray. If I run through periods when I am very busy, I can at least get 5 or 6 meaningful “Lord’s Prayers”. Gordan, the Spirit will definitely show you His Grace, which many do not receive because they are spiritually flat, even if they can comprehend and discuss intelligently what they had read.
And the last two sentences you answered at the beginning of your essay.”
“following ΙΣ ΧΣ by action…”, but more importantly, following in your heart, ie, the seat of the thing you desire most in life — your ultimate passion. (In my teenage years I would have loved a custom-made Porshe). In fact, Matthew 22:37-40 says: “Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (How many of us actually do that?) Yet, that’s ok
Of course, it’s not easy for any of us, but we are not here to ‘fix’ this world because it actually belongs to the devil, that is to say, it is under his authority for now due to mankind’s love of this world, but our efforts must be concerning heaven because our citizenship is already in heaven, literally:
Philippians 3:20…
“Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and their glory is in their shame. Their minds are set on earthly things. But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.…”
We all know hate is the way things work here, with a few anomalies looking like Love on occasion, but not the way God defines love — take a look at John 21:15–17 clearly indicating that ‘Love is not love’ — I’ve often heard people say: “love is Love” In English; John 21… reads, “love”, but in Greek, it reads two different words for ‘love’… thus, nothing could be further from the truth. The greeks have several words for Love, “storge”, love of family; eros, sensual love, passion; phileo, friendship…it a good kind of love as are the rest, but agapē is the Love with which God identifies Himself. So when Jesus asks Peter if he loves Him, He uses the word, ‘agape’; but when Peter responds he is actually saying ‘phileo’ — he meant well but that is a very dramatic conversation.
The point is, to some extent, even the best of us humans don’t give ‘all’ of ourselves. God understands that undoubtedly. Look at what happened to the perfect Man who most assuredly gave everything and many (not the majority) of His followers did likewise. Romans 8:18, NASB: “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time (no matter how bad it gets) are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.” Yet, many people believe that going through mundane rota is enough — It is not — so we learn to hang in there, fight the good fight to the bitter end.
I’ve always had a problem with agápē. Agape means charity, goodwill, preferential desire. It means committing action towards someone’s best interest.
The eschatology of hell we have holds that the two verses that imply eternal life in the lake of fire outweigh all the Bible verses that preach permanent actual death in hell or UR or any other heterodox theories (not doctrines. theories.) and God’s love immortalizes us in sin instead of actually vanquishing it. Sounds like no agape I’ve ever heard of.
But on top of that,
Agape can utterly despise someone but still commit to their best interests. A waiter shows agape to the bad customer; the son-in-law to his suspicious and hostile father-in-law, the dutiful keeper of an orphan’s asylum to an army of brats. Agape is a decision. It needs no emotion.
It is written, God is agape. But does God really have any philia, storge, delight, friendship, affection towards us anymore? save towards a few real friends he has made (Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Elijah…)? He did say he regretted making us before killing all but 8 of us.
Sure, God “loves” me, and the world enough to sent his son, but does he actually love me too?
Fair enough — obviously legitimate insights.
Agapē is a simple designation to place God far beyond the realm of human behavior, and as you defined it… It is certainly available for our imbuement and a necessity for our capacity to grow in His grace — we will not grow in grace influenced by only the characteristic human ‘loves’, though they are not evil in and of themselves. But in this curse, everything is thwarted and without the act of “walking in the Spirit, we are without hope.
Walking in the Spirit: Believers have the indwelling Spirit of Christ, the Comforter who proceeds from the Father (John 15:26). The Holy Spirit assists believers in prayer (Jude 1:20) and “intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God” (Romans 8:27). He also leads the believer into righteousness (Galatians 5:16–18) and produces His fruit in those yielded to Him (Galatians 5:22–23). Believers are to submit to the will of God and walk in the Spirit. We most assuredly could not successfully walk in the Spirit without a serious commitment to the Son of God; otherwise, the Spirit simply will not seek to imbue people.
So, the deal is, we must have faith ‘first’ and He will respond — nothing can stop that engagement. I know it seems rough for all of us (trust me, I have had a few grueling tests, but the joy and spiritual involvement cannot be described, without which I wouldn’t have them to stay on the Narrow Path…I just wouldn’t have the strength)But since God saw it fit to give me the strength I went forth with a little more confidence due to my confidence in Him. It was an act of mercy that compelled God to shorten lives so we wouldn’t live in this miserable condition for eternity. So, let me know about anything that troubles you or anything that we spoke about which still troubles you, and perhaps I can contribute.
If God knows all why did he not see that eve would be tempted if God loves all then why most of his acts include multitudes of death why does he test us then get mad when we fail why. Why must he want credit for all things good and Satan all the bad if according to most religious beliefs God tests us to see if we’re righteous how to we know when it’s Satan’s manipulation or God’s test.if he’s all knowing and all powerful and loving as I was brought up to believe why did Christ have to die for our sins why didn’t he just forgive us? why 400 years of slavery for the Israelites? Why test job. Kill his kids .and think giving him new ones was suffice sounds like possession not love I’m by no way God bashing love the lord just confused